By Craig Peacock

The following conversation with Bill Nelson took place on November 1, 1996, an hour or so before the second of two performances Channel Light Vessel gave at the LaForet Museum in Tokyo's trendy Harajuku district. Bill was his usual charming self, impishly boyish and full of enthusiasm, devoid of ego or much trace of his now 48 years. His affection for Japan dates back to the early 80s when he first became a favourite guitar sessioneer for the Japanese pop pioneers of the time. That relationship has never really waned, as Bill still finds himself very much an in-demand entity in Japan, particularly for those who yearn for a slightly warped pop texture to their album.

The Channel Light Vessel performances were sparklingly bright, with each member feeding off the obvious enjoyment of the others. As enthralling as this was, it was Bill's short solo performances that garnered the greatest cheers from the audience. Jumping back and forth between keyboards and his trademark delays and e-bow guitar, Bill showed us just a little of what the bugs on the wall of his home studio must see almost every day.

Congratulations on the performance last night, I thought it went very well.

Bill Nelson (BN): Well, I was flying by the seat of my pants at times (laughs).

The improvisation you did was really interesting as it presented the audience with a visual example of how you put together some of your albums.

BN: Yes, the same kind of mindset really. The reason that happened was that we found out literally just before I came over here that they expected me to do a complete solo set, which I hadn't been told about so I had absolutely no album mixes. I was warned that we may have to do that at the time I was mixing the actual album, so I did do a separate set of mixes for that purpose with basically percussion and bass.

How much does Roger (Eno) lead the proceedings? On stage, especially during the improvisations, he tends to be very vocal.

BN: Well, I tend to leave him to it (laughs).

The new album 'Excellent Spirits' is certainly a far more cohesive work than 'Automatic'.

BN: Yes, I think so.

I suppose that stems from the writing process. How does the actual writing of a CLV piece take place?

BN: Well, when we were writing the first album we just sat around and jammed. That can be okay, but you tend to have to do ten or so pieces before you get one that's worth taking further. This time I really wanted to make things sound a little more structured and aim for a more radio-friendly approach. With 'Automatic', the things that were picked up by radio, particularly in America, were the percussion-driven tracks, those with more of song structure rather than the chamber-music pieces. There was also a feeling on the first album that it was coming out of Roger's 'The Familiar' album, which had that kind of chamber-music approach to it. However when the record was actually finished, the more pop-oriented pieces were the ones that people liked, so this time we thought we'd try and extend that a little. I spent some time making drum loops before the band got anywhere near the studio. Then I sent the band members a click that was to the tempo of the loops - something for them to think about. The reason I sent a click and not the actual loop is because I didn't want it to dictate too much. My instruction was basically "put four of your favourite chords to this click", or "if you have a melody that you've never been able to use anywhere, see if it fits any of these tempos". That was one starting point.

When we actually got into the studio, the loops would then be put up and we would play to them. I divided it up so that everybody got a "space". Basically we took it in turns to start a number. 'Accordion Night' started with the loop plus my acoustic guitar, and then Roger played the accordion over the chords. After that the piano was added, and we finished the piece. When I say "finished", I felt it still needed something. So, the rest of the band went out to the pub, and I cut a huge hole in the middle of the piece and put in that driving tempo that gives the track that Mexican/Spanish feel. Then Roger came back, heard what I'd done and came up with the Mexican trumpet part.

With the vocal pieces, we'd build the track up with the same technique: "okay, here's your four bars, then it's Laraaji's four bars, then Kate's four bars, etc". We thus each wrote our separate sections and would then put our lyrics together. On some tracks the lyrics would come more from one person than another. 'Footsteps..." is mostly Roger and Kate's lyrics, 'End of the Century' is mostly my lyrics. So, some of the pieces were very collaborative, some not so.

After everything was committed to tape, the band went away and left me to set up basic balances, taking out things that weren't working, changing a few things here and there, adding a few extra colours - especially percussion, and then doing the final mix.

I feel that your production values are very evident in the sound of the album.

BN: Yes, maybe more so than the first album where there wasn't such density of information and it was more just the recording of a performance. This album was less of a performance more of a construction.

If we could move on to your career, I hear that you now have the Cocteau Records catalogue back in your hands.

BN: My ex-manager Mark Rye returned the tapes four days before the trial began, ending almost five years of legal action to try to recover them. He had been asked for years to return the tapes but kept insisting that they were his property. Then, right before the trial he returned them! That left very little to argue about, in fact all it left were things the lawyers had decided to address. All I initially wanted was the return of my tapes. Had he returned those tapes to me, there would have been no need to bring lawyers in. However, with lawyers being involved they found many other issues that are still to be resolved. It was a very traumatic case. We went for two weeks solid in the high court and in the end many of the minor things the lawyers had discovered he actually got away with, there wasn't enough supporting evidence. It was all a bit wicked of him.

It must have been traumatic to have a whole slice or your artistic history held unlawfully by someone else.

BN: It was indeed. What's happening now is that I'm working with a company called Resurgence, who I've done a few things with already. They are a small company like All Saints although with a bigger catalogue. They've been very responsible with me, I've had regular accounting and I've seen paperwork (laughs). So, the relationship has been quite a good one. They don't have vast budgets to work with and I stretched their budget with the 'After the Satellite Sings' album, which wasn't particularly expensive to record by most standards but was quite a risk for them. They've almost recouped (laughs). It was good that they allowed me 4 or 5 weeks in a 24 track studio, which was twice the time I was given to do the 'Practically Wired' album with All Saints. I was also offered my own label, to be administered by their set-up, but very definitely my label with an identity separate from Resurgence. I think it's a good idea as I can give it a personality away from the other things Resurgence are doing.

I now have a double album coming out in the new year called 'Confessions of a Hyper Dreamer'. It is actually has two albums, one called 'Weird Critters' and one called 'Magnificent Dream People'. One is totally instrumental and has a lot of 24-track recordings, including some solo piano pieces and some more elaborate works. The 'Weird Critters' album has a combination of vocal and instrumental pieces, all from my home studio. It's a very eclectic collection, but it's not like a four album box set where it's daunting and takes ages to absorb. I feel this album is a little more immediate. I've also made some colour collages for the artwork.

As you did with the last four album set?

BN: This one follows more the ideas I pursued with the 'Trial by Intimacy' box set. I've used part photographic and part drawn images, but this time in colour. They have a kind of 50s B-movie theme about them but are quite vibrant. The titles I suppose give it away, it's a little "kitsch B-movie" in its presentation, but I'm really pleased with it. This will be the first release on Populuxe, the new label.

You will eventually re-release the Cocteau back catalogue through this channel?

BN: Yes, I'm probably going to release them at three-monthly intervals, two at a time, maybe with some new packaging and possibly with some bonus tracks, just to make it a little more attractive second time around (laughs).

There are certainly a lot of people that don't have the original Cocteau CDs. Even when they were first released they weren't all that easy to locate, especially in the UK. Indeed, some of the rarer ones go for great prices these days! (laughs)

BN: Do they really? (laughs) The irony there is that Mark Rye still may have stock, he's always been one to hold on to such things, knowing that they may be valuable in years to come. There's not a lot that can be done about that.

No doubt 'Simplex' will be one of the first releases?

BN: Yes! That will be the first. That album was one I was so keen to release at the time and then it never happened. I of course found out later that he (Mark Rye) had been selling it without my knowledge, by mail order. So, I'd like to give that a little better packaging this time. That album is also one of the few that I put on and listen to, as if it wasn't me. I don't get too paranoid about that one! (Laughs).

What role do Opium (Arts) play in your affairs?

BN: Richard Chadwick and I have a great partnership. He has really been a god-send. He's helped me in so many ways. It was he who put together the legal action mentioned earlier, I wouldn't have known how to deal with it. Of course it was David Sylvian who introduced Richard to me and I'm grateful to David for that in a big way. I have great confidence in Richard's abilities, he's a very honest man.

He must be a very competent person for people like David and Robert Fripp to put their affairs in his hands.

BN: Yes, and Michael Brook and Annette Peacock. He has good people with him. David obviously sells a lot of records, he has a big fan base and that's a good source of income, and maybe now King Crimson as well.

Yes, the last Crimson albums have done well here in Japan.

BN: I suppose my things don't generate that much income for Richard but I think it's very much in his favour that he sees the worth of it and is happy to put the time in.

Surely your back catalogue will generate something though, as I said there are just so many people looking for those albums.

BN: Really? (laughs)

In fact, David and Robert, both of whom I interviewed a couple of years ago, said very similar things about Richard Chadwick.

BN: Yes, it is rare to find someone of that quality.

Do Catalyst handle your affairs in the US?

BN: Yes, they do. I met Cat (Catharina Masters) for the first time this year. I went over in May this year (1996) for some promotion and she helped organise that. She's a very nice person as well, and wanting to help develop things for me in the States. It has been a busy year this year so I'm hoping that in 1997 we can sit down and make some plans and get a campaign together.

You do know that your unofficial web site gets a decent amount of hits every month, have you seen it?

BN: I haven't actually seen it because I don't have a computer but I do have some print-outs that were sent to me.

The fellow that put it together is very dedicated.

BN: Mark Rushton.

Yes.

BN: Do you know that there's fan club magazine now?

Yes.

BN: Well, it's actually my local postman who does it. He's a young guy and really sweet. I try to help him with it as much as possible. We're hoping to gradually improve it and obviously the more people we get, the funds can be put into the making of it. I'm also hoping to do fan club exclusive releases again as I did in the past with Cocteau. With the website, Mark Rushton sent some things to Richard Cahill who does the fan club magazine and I saw them through that. I'm just really grateful that these people, including yourself, are so interested.

A website can be such an immediate link to a fan base these days.

BN: I have a production job coming up when I get back and I'm hoping that I'll be able to get a multi media computer out of that because I have a small Casio digital camera which is ideal for gathering images and manipulating them on computer, allowing me to prepare finished artwork myself. Of course this cuts down the overall cost of making a record, making it more attractive for a record company.

'After the Satellite Sings' seemed to take a few people by surprise. The use of breakbeats made it a very refreshing Bill Nelson album. If your vocals and guitar were left out of the mix, one might think it were a "jungle" artist like Goldie, or anyone from that field really. What led you to use such rhythms?

BN: It came out of 'Roses and Rocketships' on 'Practically Wired', which has a similar feel to it. I'd heard bits of that type of music but in actually doing it myself didn't really want to hear too much because there would be a danger that I'd slip into the drum 'n' bass formula. If yo look back, you'll detect that I have used even hip-hop type beats in the past, I've always been a fan of electronic drum machine music and of the possibility that sequenced drums allow you to do things that a live drummer physically can't do. All drum 'n' bass is simply pushing up the tempo to something that is quite inhuman and adding extreme sonic treatments. Look at my musical history, obviously it's going to be something I'd be interested in, as it has a lot of ingredients that appeal to me. Ironically it seems to also appeal to jazz musicians. I've read that John McLaughlin is doing something, Derek Bailey has just done something, Courtney Pine as well. Serious musicians seem to be catching on to it, not so much the pop people. I think the connection there is that it has an element of be-bop jazz drumming, the loose snare element that plays on accents and the rush of energy that characterises the speed of be bop. The other nice aspect to "jungle" is that it lends it self to ambient music. By 50 bpm textures on top of a 120bpm rhythm, you get a languid mood with an urgency beneath it - a very unique combination that opens up many possibilities. Had I more time I would have delved a little more deeply into it. I'll probably try to do that on my next proper studio album. Then again, I may drop it altogether, because I've heard that David Bowie going to do one.

He's done it (the 'Telling Lies' EP). I've heard a little of it and it's damn good. The main mix was done by A Guy Called Gerald, whose 'Black Secret Technology' album was a well-kept secret until Bowie mentioned it.

BN: There's a band called Photek as well, that have a very clever record out. It almost sounds like a swing record. I may get in touch with people like that to see if they'd like to bounce things off me. However, if it gets to be too much of a flavour of the month, I'll back off it. (laughs)

There is always the danger that you'll die with the trend.

BN: Yes. You know, I still have this hankering to do a guitar band.

Since before 'Blue Moons and Laughing Guitars', right?

BN: Yes, with multiple guitars and perhaps two drummers. It may not sound so radical but I'm hoping that it can be structured and orchestrated in an interesting way. Then again, there's always more possibilities than I have the time or money to deal with! (laughs)

Do you plan to do any more 'Iconography'-type pieces?

BN: I wanted to do some more under the name "Orchestra Arcana". While I think it's still recognisably my stuff, it tended to develop a personality of its own. There are actually some things on the new double album that would fit perfectly into that format. I've used a lot of dialogue again, Charles Bukowski and Judy Garland. I'd also like to put things out under a pseudonym. (smiles)

You've of course done that in the past.

BN: Yes, with the Revox Cadets. It was more fun that way. I have a lot of band names and concepts up my sleeve. (laughs)

Something I would have liked to see you develop a little more was the Scala material you did with Daryl Runswick.

BN: It was done for a TV series called 'Brond' with Stratford Johns, and directed by Michael Caton Jones who has since gone on to do movies in Hollywood. 'This Boy's Life' with Robert DeNiro is his latest.

The style of the two Scala pieces was somewhat similar to the 'Map of Dreams' album.

BN: Yes, the making of the two projects overlapped.

Will the Scala pieces get a re-release on Populuxe?

BN: I'm not sure. Channel Four were involved with the publishing, so I'd have to check that. Certainly I'd like to, as there are some very nice pieces that weren't released and still stand up very nicely. There is one problem with the re-issues though, that some of the older stuff that was on reel-to reel has disappeared in Mark Rye's possession. Unfortunately, he claims not to know where some of the tapes are.

What's the story on 'Getting The Holy Ghost Across'? Will we ever see that album again?

BN: So many people ask me this. We are trying to figure out what is going on with CBS. They did put 'Vistamix' out, so I can't see what the problem is. It's the one missing album on CD. Of course CBS are a major company who don't relate to the demand and it certainly wouldn't cost them much to put it out.

Were you happy with the album at the time?

BN: Yes, and there's a lot of it I like still. The album started out at home on 16-track, and I then took it into a professional studio and added extra components to take most tracks to 24-track, and some to 48.

Whatever happened to Iain Denby, the phenomenal bass player you used on that record?

BN: Iain is now a very successful furniture designer. He's a very talented player and he toured with me in America after that album was released. I think he ended up being snapped up by some Italian design studio, making far more money than he ever would have at music. (laughs)

Do you ever see yourself working with your friend David Sylvian again?

BN: I'd like to if David would want me. He's almost completed his new album, which he's been recording for about a year now. It would certainly be nice to get back in the studio with him. (smiles)

Will you ever release a compilation video? Some of your work in that area was very innovative for its time, in particular the video for 'Flaming Desire'.

BN: Nothing is planned at the moment, but I've actually got a really good quality Hi8 video camera, so I'm planning various things. I may do something through Populuxe next year. That would have 'Do You Dream in Colour?', 'Flaming Desire', the CLV video, the Rhythm Sisters video I made, and some other archival things.

Can I get your nostalgic recollections on a few of the sessions you've done over he years? Let's start with Rice Music (Masami Tsuchiya's 1982 album).

BN: That was the first time I'd ever worked with a Japanese musician. He was recording a Air Studios in London. I didn't know anything about the Japanese music scene at the time except for YMO. When I found out he was a guitar player I couldn't figure out why he wanted another guitarist on his album. I'd known the producer Steve Nye from many years before, actually from the very first Be-Bop Deluxe album as he engineered some of the tracks. I hadn't seen Steve since 1973. Masami was incredibly well-dressed for the studio (laughs), most English musicians wear t shirts and jogging pants. I must say that I enjoyed the sessions very much, they were quick and painless. (laughs)

Working with Mick Karn on 'Chimera'.

BN: Yes, I asked Mick to come and play bass on 'Chimera'. I also had Yukihiro Takahashi on drums. It was a nice combination. I think the connection came through Masami (Tsuchiya), as Yukihiro thought that I might work with other Japanese musicians and thus got me in for his 'What, Me Worry?' album and then the YMO 'Naughty Boys' album. They were all very enjoyable sessions.

Who are the guitarists you admire?

BN: When I was a teenager in the late 50s it was The Shadows, Duane Eddy and The Ventures. Then I got into more technical players like Chet Atkins, Jim Hall, Wes Montgomery, people like that. After that the British blues scene happened, basically young guys out of art college like myself trying to play black blues music, people like Beck and Clapton. It's of course impossible to deny the impact of Hendrix as well. These days I tend to like people that approach the instrument from a different angle. Fred Frith and Bill Frisell are good examples.

How about Robert Fripp?

BN: Robert has carved his own niche, and I think it's important to forge a signature, such as Robert has done. That is an achievement in itself. I also like Robert as a person. He has contributed a lot to the guitar. I believe he's actually brought the instrument forward and thus deserves his space.

Finally, where can people write to you these days?

BN: The best thing is to direct it through Opium. It will get to me eventually.

Thank you for your time Bill.

You're very welcome. Thank you.

(c) 1996 Craig Peacock

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