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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:40 pm 
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Perfect Monster wrote:
But I am saying that the stereo soundstage on these BBD records is, to me, not as clear and well-defined as that on, say, "Dark Side of the Moon", to take an obvious example.


But 'Sunburst Finish' was not meant to sound like 'Dark Side Of The Moon.' For one thing, the music is totally different and requires an equally different sonic feel. It's all about texture and density, not necessarily 'clarity' and the usual kind of separation.

But, funnily enough, you may recall a posting here on the forum some time ago when the album was used to test out some ultra high-end hi-fi system for a magazine or newspaper feature and the reviewer raved about the production and mix of the album.

So you see, there's no one way for an album to sound. Some of my personal favourite albums go out of their way to not sound super clear and obvious. Mood is more the focus, and challenging preconceptions about how music should sound, not getting anal about high fidelity.

Anyway, I like Sunburst just the way it was intended to sound and 'cleaning it up' does not, as far as I'm concerned, really do anything to improve the original intention. It's a product of its time, a snapshot of the reality in which it was created. Cleaning it up, (an entirely unneccesary act in my opinion,) removes it from its proper place in time and turns it into something it was never meant to be.


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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:27 am 
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hmmmm, I'm always a bit hesitant when people start remixing/remastering records, It can be very hit & miss.

When Alan Parsons "remixed" 'Tales of Mystery & Imagination' he spray canned wailing guitar over the opening track.
I assume it seemed a good idea at the time :roll:


BTW, I think Bill's referring to 'Modern Music' being used for auditioning a high end audio system

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5138&hilit=Naim


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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:19 am 
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Jeff Green wrote:
BTW, I think Bill's referring to 'Modern Music' being used for auditioning a high end audio system

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5138&hilit=Naim


Ah, yes...'Modern Music' it was. I clearly don't take enough notice of these things! :wink: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:29 pm 
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Jeff Green wrote:
BTW, I think Bill's referring to 'Modern Music' being used for auditioning a high end audio system viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5138&hilit=Naim


I knew it was 'Modern Music' and tried looking online to find relevant article, but couldn't..but, that's the one!..never thought of doing a search of the DV threads :roll: :oops: :lol:

Just for the record, my late Father had quite a high-end Hi-Fi system in the 1970s and so long as I was respectful of this equipment he was ok with me playing 'special' albums through it, now and then...and I always remember playing Sunburst Finish and Modern Music through this system and being blown away by how great they sounded!, and, in comparison to some other high profile releases from top artists of the time and remember my Father made positive comments too...contrary to a couple of comments made, I always thought, and still do, just how crisp and clear (especially Modern Music) and well-balanced Be-Bop Deluxe albums seemed to be..just how professional they sounded..a sonic delight :D ...everyone sees and hears differently.


Jeff Green wrote:
hmmmm, I'm always a bit hesitant when people start remixing/remastering records, It can be very hit & miss.


Yes, that's a good point to make....In general, if everything has gone according to plan, an album is released into the public domain how the artist/s wants the final product to 'be'..it's mixed to their approval and sounds how they want it to sound and makes the statement they are trying to make..no we all know situations, time, money, different ideas and inputs etc, etc can make getting the final product with the icing on top, easier said than done and I suppose there are always compromises..but let's assume thing have gone reasonably well and the final mix is to 'satisfaction', then the pressed and released album is, give or take, how the artist wants it to be...That's the important part!..it then becomes a permanent marker of what that musician was at that particular time..a milestone, a mark of intent, if you like..a 'cast in stone' statement of what they were all about and trying to achieve at that point in history...and that's why I think the original mix of a release is so important!..it contains the very DNA of what they were all about at a particular point in time and I think it's very important to remember that point and preserve that original intent....Personally I, much more often than not, prefer original album releases, the original mix, over remixed, 'souped-up' remasters, of which there are often numerous versions.....The caveat to this point is obviously when things have not gone according to plan in the recording and mixing process in the first place and artists are generally unsatisfied with the final product..when it is not how they wanted it to be or sound..then remastering can obviously be a good thing, especially if done by the artist/s, or with their input and approval...as I mentioned recently in another thread, the Jimmy Page remastered release of Led Zep's 'Physical Graffiti' in 2015 is a very good example of just how good remastering can be.

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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 1:46 pm 
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I have to Admit that "Modern Music" is a favourite of mine. "Bird Charmers Destiny" and "Down on Terminal Street" always seem to almost catch me by surprise when listening to it.


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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 6:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:29 pm 
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…...very good points Tourist - I agree with you wholeheartedly I might add...


......I can remember some many years ago, seeking out Hendrix Polydor CDs because they hadn't been tampered with, as had the 'airbrushed' re-releases on some label or another......I didn't want to hear 'Are You Experienced?' or 'Axis' with new production or any such tampering, as they had been offered out in the '90s - I wanted to have them as rough and unfiltered as they were intended, as produced by Chas Chandler at that very time in 1967.....as were the LPs I had as a kid - some things just shouldn't be 'enhanced'......


However - as an example of how good remastering/reworking can be..... Toni Visconti's reworking/remastering of Bowie's 'Lodger' last year was a true revelation of what that album should've sounded like if they weren't running out of Swiss studio time and had to wing it.....that 1979 'fuggy' sound has been reworked to produce clarity and nuances that are astonishing to behold after all these years.....'Lodger' has finally been given the treatment to showcase what a fantastic piece of music it is in my opinion....

......so, to be very honest, I'm kind of happy with the sound on my LP and CD copies of 'Sunburst Finish', and will be spending my limited funds on Bill's future pursuits rather than the reissue set of this great album........still think it's a great idea to put this out for the 'completists' and those who don't know it......and it's a beautiful box set! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:50 pm 
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I understand Bills frustrations with being pegged to his creations from the 1970,s .....but I hope it is a possible avenue for new listeners to seek out what he has created since that time ...assuming that this website link is included on the boxed set somewhere . I am interested to hear the remastered mix ... I can only think of a couple of remastered albums that really stand out (for me) one is Peter Gabriels US and Paul Simons Graceland (and Rhythm of the saints) . If I hadn't heard them the originals would be perfect....
cheers y'all
steve

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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2018 7:56 pm 
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steve lyles wrote:
I can only think of a couple of remastered albums that really stand out (for me) one is Peter Gabriels US and Paul Simons Graceland (and Rhythm of the saints) .


I found the remastered version of Peter Gabriel's first solo album (car) to be revelatory.

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 Post subject: Re: Sunburst Finish "deluxe" set reissue - 5.1 mix.
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:07 pm 
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paul.smith wrote:
…...very good points Tourist - I agree with you wholeheartedly I might add...


......I can remember some many years ago, seeking out Hendrix Polydor CDs because they hadn't been tampered with, as had the 'airbrushed' re-releases on some label or another......I didn't want to hear 'Are You Experienced?' or 'Axis' with new production or any such tampering, as they had been offered out in the '90s - I wanted to have them as rough and unfiltered as they were intended, as produced by Chas Chandler at that very time in 1967.....as were the LPs I had as a kid - some things just shouldn't be 'enhanced'......

......so, to be very honest, I'm kind of happy with the sound on my LP and CD copies of 'Sunburst Finish', and will be spending my limited funds on Bill's future pursuits rather than the reissue set of this great album...


Thanks Paul......and that pretty much sums up how I feel, with caveats as mentioned.


paul.smith wrote:
...still think it's a great idea to put this out for the 'completists' and those who don't know it......and it's a beautiful box set! 8)


Absolutely......and, ofc, curiosity dictates it would be nice to hear how this new remix has turned out.. :wink:


paul.smith wrote:
However - as an example of how good remastering/reworking can be..... Toni Visconti's reworking/remastering of Bowie's 'Lodger' last year was a true revelation of what that album should've sounded like if they weren't running out of Swiss studio time and had to wing it.....that 1979 'fuggy' sound has been reworked to produce clarity and nuances that are astonishing to behold after all these years.....'Lodger' has finally been given the treatment to showcase what a fantastic piece of music it is in my opinion....


Now this is very interesting and to be honest, another one I knew nothing about...an underrated and quite influential Bowie album imo, and from what you have said, this Toni Visconti remastering looks well worth checking out...cheers! 8)

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