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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Bill Nelson wrote:
Most of our regular Dreamsville members will already know my personal dislike of tribute bands but I thought it might be interesting for those fans not on Facebook pages to read one of my comments from the thread on the topic.


I used to feel the same way about tribute bands, never had much time for them until I became involved with one. I thought, what the hell I'll try it and see if I like it.
Having done the creative thing for years prior I had gotten to the point where I just wanted to play music I like and present it at a (hopefully) high level.
From my perspective, it's less complicated than being in an original band, no ego's involved, no arguments or very little and I still sound like me, there's still my stamp on things somewhat.
12 years later I'm still doing it and I'm working with some great players and get to play to some large audiences.
I make no pretense over what I do, it's not high art as it were but it is fun, that said if we don't have fun playing then why even bother.
I still get my fix of creativity doing sessions here and there for people so there's that too.

Just my take on the "Tribute band" subject.

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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:55 pm 
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Paul Weller and Oasis are basically tribute acts, aren't they? Many others, too.

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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:25 pm 
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next move wrote:
Bill Nelson wrote:
Most of our regular Dreamsville members will already know my personal dislike of tribute bands but I thought it might be interesting for those fans not on Facebook pages to read one of my comments from the thread on the topic.


I used to feel the same way about tribute bands, never had much time for them until I became involved with one. I thought, what the hell I'll try it and see if I like it.
Having done the creative thing for years prior I had gotten to the point where I just wanted to play music I like and present it at a (hopefully) high level.
From my perspective, it's less complicated than being in an original band, no ego's involved, no arguments or very little and I still sound like me, there's still my stamp on things somewhat.
12 years later I'm still doing it and I'm working with some great players and get to play to some large audiences.
I make no pretense over what I do, it's not high art as it were but it is fun, that said if we don't have fun playing then why even bother.
I still get my fix of creativity doing sessions here and there for people so there's that too.

Just my take on the "Tribute band" subject.


As long as you're ensuring that the appropriate PRS is being paid to the artists who wrote the original material you're copying...


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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:41 am 
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Bill Nelson wrote:
next move wrote:
Bill Nelson wrote:
Most of our regular Dreamsville members will already know my personal dislike of tribute bands but I thought it might be interesting for those fans not on Facebook pages to read one of my comments from the thread on the topic.


I used to feel the same way about tribute bands, never had much time for them until I became involved with one. I thought, what the hell I'll try it and see if I like it.
Having done the creative thing for years prior I had gotten to the point where I just wanted to play music I like and present it at a (hopefully) high level.
From my perspective, it's less complicated than being in an original band, no ego's involved, no arguments or very little and I still sound like me, there's still my stamp on things somewhat.
12 years later I'm still doing it and I'm working with some great players and get to play to some large audiences.
I make no pretense over what I do, it's not high art as it were but it is fun, that said if we don't have fun playing then why even bother.
I still get my fix of creativity doing sessions here and there for people so there's that too.

Just my take on the "Tribute band" subject.


As long as you're ensuring that the appropriate PRS is being paid to the artists who wrote the original material you're copying...


The short answer is yes. That is always taken care of from the establishments that hire the band otherwise they can only book original bands.

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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:03 pm 
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It's always baffled me why orchestras are never lumped into the same category as cover bands, I mean for the most part they almost always play other peoples music and yet somehow are elevated as being something different, something elite.
Anyhow, sorry...I don't mean to hijack the thread...carry on everyone :)

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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:49 pm 
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next move wrote:
It's always baffled me why orchestras are never lumped into the same category as cover bands, I mean for the most part they almost always play other peoples music and yet somehow are elevated as being something different, something elite.


I guess the answer to that is that orchestras are necessary to play the written work of composers who don't perform their compositions, Let's take the hoary old comparison of Bach or Beethoven: The music they composed was written to be played by orchestras. Neither composer could have performed the piece as written on his own. The orchestra, in those kind of situations, is the palette, canvas and brush that the composer uses to realise his compositions. When orchestras perform more modern compositions, they usually work out their own unique arrangement of a tune, bringing something original to it. It's an interpretation or re-interpretation of the composition. This can be highly imaginative.

Tribute bands, by contrast, just attempt to emulate another band's original performances, recordings and compositions, note for note, sound for sound, even going as far as using the same amps and guitars and, in some instances, trying to make themselves look like the band they're supposedly paying 'tribute' to. It's not an interpretation, or a new variation, it's a wholesale appropriation of someone else's creative ideas, musically, lyrically, sonically and stylistically. Sometimes the playing does no favours to the original material. And, even if it's technically quite good, ultimately, it's inauthentic, a mere pastiche or impersonation. It can't possibly carry the weight of personal experience, the lifeblood of the original, no matter how superficially 'close' it sounds to the untrained ear.

Don't misunderstand, I've played in lots of bands who did covers in my early years, before I started to write my own songs. But these were amateur bands playing in small pubs and working men's clubs and we played whatever was in the charts and popular at the time. We didn't set ourselves up as a tribute act, we just played lots of different kinds of music, we were not trying to make a name for ourselves by coping just one band to gain an audience on the strength of that band's name alone.

To me, it's a kind of plagiarism, copping an entire band's ideas and persona and even a variation on their name, or something connected with it, making money by producing a mere copy of the real thing. As I've mentioned before, I once asked the guitarist of a Be Bop Deluxe tribute band why he didn't write and play his own material. His answer was: "We tried that, but we get more gigs and make more money playing your songs." And the irony was that at that time, I couldn't even finance a band of my own to go out and give people the real deal. But there you go... :wink:

The biggest and best tribute any band could give me would be to become inspired by what I do, to adopt my attitude towards creativity and individuality and write and perform their own music. That would mean so much more to me.

Now I'll get back to work...I've got a new song awaiting a mix! :D


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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:00 pm 
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Well I am sure you did that to many of us here Bill. I, for instance, would not have been so intrigued about developing sounds, beats and rythms to create about 150 songs that I gave to a band that I was part of in the 1980's and 90's. You gave me many years of inspirations, fun, gigging, and recording. And still today at times, I enjoy banging on my guitars and bass. Many miles away, yet listening to your musical creations are still inspiring.

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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:26 pm 
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CoachMatt wrote:
Well I am sure you did that to many of us here Bill. I, for instance, would not have been so intrigued about developing sounds, beats and rythms to create about 150 songs that I gave to a band that I was part of in the 1980's and 90's. You gave me many years of inspirations, fun, gigging, and recording. And still today at times, I enjoy banging on my guitars and bass. Many miles away, yet listening to your musical creations are still inspiring.


That's good to hear. I'm flattered.

I don't want to blow my own trumpet too much, (I'm a lousy trumpet player anyway,) but there seems to have been quite a few musicians inspired by my work across the years...I mean, Stuart Adamson and Richard Jobson, Andy Partridge, for instance, (amongst others,) were big fans of Be Bop Deluxe, but they didn't go out and form a Be Bop Deluxe tribute band, They took inspiration from the music to create their own unique songs and sound. That's a far better tribute in my opinion... :) .


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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:54 pm 
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Clearly any orchestral composition can never come to life without the orchestra. I was reading an interview with Zappa who was saying he's written music he may never get to hear because it's difficult to find an orchestra to play the music and even more difficult to fine one to play it correctly, describing the LSO as a bunch of drunks lol. My poorly made point was, taking Beethoven as an example, why is that any more elevated than a bar band up the street playing Satisfaction. The medium is different, the musical problems and complexity are certainly different but given it's not Beethoven conducting the orchestra (using your example) then surely when it comes right down to it what you get is a "cover version" because who's to say what you're hearing is as the composer intended, carries the lifeblood or weight of personal experience of the original composer and not just a pastiche? The venue may be nicer, they may wear suits and have been to music school but for my money it's basically the same thing.

"Tribute bands, by contrast, just attempt to emulate another band's original performances, recordings and compositions, note for note, sound for sound, even going as far as using the same amps and guitars and, in some instances, trying to make themselves look like the band they're supposedly paying 'tribute' to. It's not an interpretation, or a new variation, it's a wholesale appropriation of someone else's creative ideas, musically, lyrically, sonically and stylistically. Sometimes the playing does no favours to the original material. And, even if it's technically quite good, ultimately, it's inauthentic, a mere pastiche or impersonation. It can't possibly carry the weight of personal experience, the lifeblood of the original, no matter how superficially 'close' it sounds to the untrained ear."

I don't disagree with this Bill, I do not for a second believe anyone can sound like another person/artist. To me that's crazy. I can't speak for other players/bands but I will say that I play to the absolute best of my ability, There's no short-changing anyone. People know what they're coming to see when they pay for a ticket and there's no lack of feeling in what I/we do, some of it is played note for note and some of it' not. There's also a reasonable ratio of pieces that are improvised and rearranged a little to give them a different spin. So it's not an exact cookie cutter performance. I do draw the line at dying my hair grey and shaving my head bald to look like David Gilmour :) I Just play music I enjoy for people who enjoy listening to me do it.

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 Post subject: Re: UNDERSTANDING THE IDEA.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:21 am 
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next move wrote:
taking Beethoven as an example, why is that any more elevated than a bar band up the street playing Satisfaction. The medium is different, the musical problems and complexity are certainly different but given it's not Beethoven conducting the orchestra (using your example) then surely when it comes right down to it what you get is a "cover version"


Not really, there was never a definitive orchestral version in the first place, only notes on paper, a score, and it was written so long ago, no one knows how Beethoven would have conducted it anyway. The orchestral versions are the best we've got, it's the only way to hear the music, though some orchestras play it better than others.

With my music, you've got the actual recordings to listen to, from the original artist, writer and performer. And I'm still here, alive and kicking, still making music. Maybe when I've been gone several years, I won't feel too bad, (though I doubt I'll feel anything at all,) about tribute bands pretending to be Be Bop Deluxe, (though I doubt that anyone will care or remember anything about it.) But right now, I dislike the idea of tribute bands with a vengeance. Never mind...I get some solace from the fact that the music I make now is far less easy to copy and doesn't really appeal to the more rock oriented bands. It's got its own built in deterrent! :lol:

By the way, I don't quite understand your 'elevated' comment. It's neither elevated or otherwise, it's either something you like or you don't, according to your perceptions, but I personally admire the writing in classical music far more than the writing in pop, which is often shallow, stupid and lazy. Does that make the music I admire 'elevated?' I also admire jazz and avant garde music...it just feels like there's more depth of thought and sophistication put into it than, say, 'I Can't Get No Satisfaction' or whatever. But for those of us not equipped with such profound and sophisticated musical tastes or talents, The Rolling Stones, etc, are all we've got, particularly if our technical skills on the instrument are limited and all we need is a beer and a rock n' roll party. Nothing wrong with that, of course, been there, done that. But let's not pretend it's a level playing field where every sort of music is equal to any other. Being egalitarian doesn't stop me from recognising the worth of other musical genres and wishing I could make music so glorious and beautiful. But it's all in the ear of the beholder. We go as far as we're able, but some brilliant folk will go further and deeper...I'd like to think that they set the bar higher for me to jump. :wink:


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