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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:00 pm 
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Also, just as small quibble....CD is a 'lossy" format. Meaning, in short, compressed. I much prefer the FLAC or Vinyl for this reason. But, the CD's should be bought in lieu of the other formats being available. The work should have primacy and it is GOOD/GREAT work!

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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:26 pm 
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AnarchyInc wrote:
CD is a 'lossy" format. Meaning, in short, compressed. I much prefer the FLAC or Vinyl for this reason.


But the Flac version is just the CD without the Mp3 downgrade. So, unless the original recording was recorded at a much higher bit rate/resolution than CD and not mastered for, or originally released on CD, then there's absolutely no difference between the CD and the Flac version.

The usual physical format for my albums, (and just about everyone else's,) is CD, so the only thing Flac versions are doing is reproducing, accurately, the CD's quality. It can't up the ante, so to speak.
Mp3s, on the other hand, definitely downgrade the CD's quality.

As for vinyl, it technically has a lower reproduction quality than a CD and contains analogue artefacts, harmonic distortion, reduced bandwith and so on. But whilst on paper vinyl appears inferior to digital, to the human ear it sounds smoother and sweeter...warmer being the most commonly accepted term for it. So what is sonically measurable, (or superior,) in scientific terms doesn't always translate to the enjoyment of the subjective human ear. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Bill Nelson wrote:
AnarchyInc wrote:
CD is a 'lossy" format. Meaning, in short, compressed. I much prefer the FLAC or Vinyl for this reason.


But the Flac version is just the CD without the Mp3 downgrade. So, unless the original recording was recorded at a much higher bit rate/resolution than CD and not mastered for, or originally released on CD, then there's absolutely no difference between the CD and the Flac version.

The usual physical format for my albums, (and just about everyone else's,) is CD, so the only thing Flac versions are doing is reproducing, accurately, the CD's quality. It can't up the ante, so to speak.
Mp3s, on the other hand, definitely downgrade the CD's quality.

As for vinyl, it technically has a lower reproduction quality than a CD and contains analogue artefacts, harmonic distortion, reduced bandwith and so on. But whilst on paper vinyl appears inferior to digital, to the human ear it sounds smoother and sweeter...warmer being the most commonly accepted term for it. So what is sonically measurable, (or superior,) in scientific terms doesn't always translate to the enjoyment of the subjective human ear. :)


I know what you mean! Kind of like how Tom Waits sounds better the crappier your stereo is? :P

This is not a comparison to Bill's music by the way! Just to the nature of how the ear is.

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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:40 pm 
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AnarchyInc, I'm in the same camp as you. I am not bothered by format in the least and do not have to deep seated nostalgia which insists on a specific experience. I lost that eons ago with the death of the 12" vinyl format. An the irony being, most were seriously not fond of the new CDs at all; mostly because of the reduced artwork and hard, plastic jewel cases. All I want is to hear the music. Because really, it is most of what we digest anyway. Although the cover artwork helped to add to the experience, and ostensibly, help to tell a story, some cover art is so bad, you sometimes wish it were different as it can tend to have the opposite effect on your listening pleasure. And except for artists like Bill, most covers are created by a label's art department and as with DVD boxes and book covers, have no input from the artists whatsoever.

But this debate has been going long and strong here and nearly everything possible has been said by both sides, even though none of us has any possible effect on the outcome of what the rest of the world does in regards to the impending loss of the CD as 'format of choice'. And lot of the time it has gotten quite heated. But in time you realise that people will have preferences. It's only natural. And they will attempt to defend those preferences regardless. We do that. But regardless, in the end those who control product will have the last word a lot of people are going to be unhappy, some will feel the right choice was made, and a good chunk of people will just be glad that particular debate is over.

As to Bill, he is a very unique person and so sees things from a way that cannot be any other than personal. After all, that's what experience is. And these works are his creations which we are considering, and most of all, wanting. And as much as I have tried to push and prod with various arguments, he has just as strongly held his ground. Why would he not? And the toughest part for me is not being able to hear ALL the reasons for his stance. Because there must be many points that he has not felt like offering up for reasons that too remain non-public information. And obvious ones such as reason based on past experiences where he has been bamboozled into doing things he though wrong for himself at the time.

And so I had to learn (as others here) to accept that Bill will not offer up everything willy-nilly no matter how clear and understandable these points would be, just to win an argument. And so you have to see this and respect it. Otherwise you will just have to learn to remain frustrated. No one has a right to any other person's explanations. Something are just not negotiable. :wink:

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Last edited by asterisk on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:46 pm 
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And there it is. I mean honestly Bill gives and gives you know. Sometimes when I put on a non Bill CD and its like 10 12 tracks I am just stopped in my tracks, and I have to just once again remind myself how much extra effort he puts into it, and if he wants to do these things in his own time or not at all, I can't really have any serious qualms. I already have more material in my car than most artists release over the course of their entire lives, band and solo combined! :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:56 pm 
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Very well said, asters.

This is a nice development and I hope everything works out well for our man Bill. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:14 pm 
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Isn't FLAC 24 bit as this is the de facto recording standard for studio quality, CD is mastered at 16 bit, hence the lossy comments, DVDA is 24bit,

Thus I can hear Talking Heads at 16 bit & then put on the companion DVDA & hear them in 24 bit 5.1 sound, Blu Ray CD would be nice, there is a standard for this.

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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:22 pm 
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Maybe you need get one of these, JE. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:24 pm 
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What can I say except....I agree :) the "warmth" of Vinyl is the intangible and absolutely beautiful.

I will bow to Bill when it comes to audio specs!

Let me make clear, I am not frustrated though. Seems as a "n00b" I have trod on some very well travelled roads vis a vis Digital vs ...the other digital (cd)?. Please take my post as gentle opinions proffered and no disrespect or intention that those opinions be the soul ones, nor that they require action.

But, golly, fun to talk to some folks and hear differing opinions regardless :P

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 Post subject: Re: 'NEON CYNICS' RE-ISSUED AS A DOWNLOAD ONLY ALBUM!
PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:43 pm 
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Welcome to 'The Inn,' AnarcyInc. :D

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and our never ending download discussion. :D

The entire discussion is available for download. :wink:


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