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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:51 am 
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Very sober comments, Mick.

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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:29 pm 
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My guess is there is no fan here buying and posting your music, I would guess those streaming sites have agents that scour the net for CD's released on the net (or otherwise), buy one, rip them, post them for sale as MP3 or other compressed format.

The other way it can find it's way on to sites more commonly is via UseNet, where music in MP3 & FLAC began in the 90's and flourished into what you see today, a billion dollar industry, yet many of those same players still trade (steal music) on UseNet, where it's then grabbed by the illegal download sites for free and sold on a website.

The amount of music posted on UseNet is staggering, there are no rules, no one goes to court, no one pays anything; And it's not just music, add movies, games of all systems, applications, books, e-books... a billion dollar give-away, all going on for almost 20 years.

Bill's music is a pin prick on the moon when the problem is viewed in it's entirety, yet we all see how it affects his life, and he is not alone.

Edit:
Just to add, my knowledge of these places traces back to my Grateful Dead days, when UseNet was just the place to trade live shows, but after MP3 became so popular the usenet music groups were flooded with pirate stuff... this is when I moved to the Dead's legal service and many others that sprang up to fill the gap for live (legal) show traders.

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Last edited by Prey on Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:34 pm 
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(looks like a lot was said between the time I started this post and when I got back around to sitting down and finishing it)

People from 'the old days' know about someone with such a resentment against Bill that they probably are illegally uploading his stuff. There's some amount of speculation in there, but I don't think it's much of a stretch. I'd be leery of selling to that person if they're buying under their real name .... but enough about that old mess :|

50,000 illegal downloads is a lot, and evidently it doesn't lead to many cd sales for Bill, not that I can dispute your overall points, Mr. a .
I use yootoob and amazon to find music , and it leads to lots of purchases, though I look for used cd's as a first option. With my extremely selective taste , it's painful to drop $10-$20 for a cd with one or two tunes being the only ones I'll listen to much. I don't mind doing that with Bill's cd's though (and there's usually more than a couple I rip) :shock: (yes , I'm that blipping picky; I thought you all knew that by now :mrgreen: ).

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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:39 pm 
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Prey wrote:
My guess is there is no fan here buying and posting your music, I would guess those streaming sites have agents that scour the net for CD's released on the net (or otherwise), buy one, rip them, post them for sale as MP3 or other compressed format.

The other way it can find it's way on to sites more commonly is via UseNet, where music in MP3 & FLAC began in the 90's and flourished into what you see today, a billion dollar industry, yet many of those same players still trade (steal music) on UseNet, where it's then grabbed by the illegal download sites for free and sold on a website.

The amount of music posted on UseNet is staggering, there are no rules, no one goes to court, no one pays anything; And it's not just music, add movies, games of all systems, applications, books, e-books... a billion dollar give-away, all going on for almost 20 years.

Bill's music is a pin prick on the moon when the problem is viewed in it's entirety, yet we all see how it affects his life, and he is not alone.


Mmmm :| :idea:

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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:04 pm 
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Sigh... all this is an education for me..

Why can't things be simple?

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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 3:54 pm 
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Quote:
It's quite reasonable to say that the vast majority of fans are often reticent to voice their opinions in public, not because of any lack of enthusiasm, but because of a wariness of entering the internet/fan arena with its all far too frequent bickering, personal insults, prejudices, misunderstandings and so on. Those who do voice their opinions in public are, perhaps, for whatever reason, not necessarily the majority, but naturally more inclined, or comfortable with raising their head above the fan-base parapet.

I'm extremely pleased that we have so many regular contributers to this forum. Nevertheless, I know for a fact that there are many other fans who purchase my music and who are, for want of a better word, a little 'shy' and prefer to support the work without having to reveal their presence. And that's fine with me too.


I'm afraid I fall into that category; painfully shy. I remember meeting Peter Hammill, Guy Evans and Hugh Banton a few years ago (Hugh had invited me back after we had a few discussions on old organs and since I was coming to see the show anyways well...) That meeting was an absolute blur....Peter was very gracious..they all were really, but it was very difficult for me. Managed to get the lyric books signed, but what a trial. The only time I can beat it is when I have to walk into classes containing 220 to 300 Uni students and fix tech issues with IT eq. that stop the teacher from carrying on with his/her lecture; go figure.

I do see a lot of anger and hate as well on some of the sites, and it`s never really worth joining based on that, however I have found that here resides the more level headed ones I have read posts from; so yeah...a good group of people.

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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 4:22 pm 
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Catherine Bradder wrote:
Sigh... all this is an education for me..

Why can't things be simple?


Because as Bill so eloquently put it; 'One Thing Leads To Another'

If Mankind hadn't been so inventive we'd all still be happily buying our music on vinyl sitting in our bedrooms looking at gatefold sleeves and immersing ourselves into every nuance such wonderful musicians helped provide. One format, popular beyond compare in its day, and practically impossible to duplicate for the average consumer, although no good for joggers for for playing in the car......

The invention of the compact cassette and hi-fi recording devices meant that people could borrow records and tape them leading to the development of the Sony Walkman. Enter joggers and XR3i drivers..... baseball cap sales soared!

Music fidelity and appreciation for it started to wane. Some people used cassettes as the means of sharing music (mainly bootlegged live recordings or studio outtakes) and packaged them off to like minded souls in trading circles. Record Fairs became a common source for getting hold of such tapes for a couple of quid to enable some people to build up a trading list with which to enter the arena of copyright infringement. Music fidelity, while still a consideration for tape traders (remember grading systems - A+, A-, B+ B-, C etc?) :wink: , sank even lower as we thrilled to the sound of live perfomances recorded on cheap equipment kept out of view under seats. Some recordings gained legendary status and are sometimes seen as better than some official live albums.

The invention of the compact disc meant that the industry could deliberately phase out vinyl by lowering the quality of pressings allowing both an inflated price to be charged (£12 when launched) and entice plenty of people to downgrade their collections by buying the same product all over again (and again and again as it would turn out). Bootlegs became on the whole better quality although quality control is not the manufacturers priority in such cases. Most of this material was not available commercially although in the modern world much of it now appears as bonus material in deluxe editions of albums some poeple have already purchased twice. In some cases (in the main fan produced DVDs) are better than the official counterparts.
What comes around goes around it seems..... Was home taping killing music or helping it survive?

Eventually cassettes - the most popular format at some point in the eighties - gave way to CD too. Newer cars featured in car CD players, joggers moved on to Sony Discman and then the iPod. CDRs and computer technology eventually allowed people to copy clones of their friends' albums for the price of a blank disc, much cheaper than tapes.

Meanwhile some clever boffins invented the world wide web and soon Napster was on hand to allow people to download free music, burn it to CD or to load it onto an iPod and file share across the globe denting a hole in the profits of Royal Mail and EMI et al. After years of being 'ripped off by the music industry', the consumer could get their revenge and beat the music biz who were not 'ready' to make full use of the new technology nor appreciate its marketability. Some irony there.....

Eventually, but rising exponentially, millions of people on an affordable global network are, in many cases without even realising it, breaking the law and making what had been a tactile and time consuming interest, a hands free immediately satiating addiction. Its the audio equivalent of taking drugs really. :wink:

While the above is not a PhD in the marketing and mass exploitation of music over the past 50 years, it shows that without all of these developments we would all still be spending money in the high street, although it has to be said that the old model could not acommodate the numbers of people who wish to make music their career. Which is another reason why the market has effectively dwindled. The times they are indeed a changing.

Apologies to joggers, but not XR3i drivers........ :wink:

Despite the frivolous tone of the above, I am in no way condoning The Practice of Copyright Infringement.

Mick.

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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:37 pm 
Mick Winsford wrote:
Some recordings gained legendary status and are sometimes seen as better than some official live albums.


Indeed. One mention of "Blueberry Hill" to a Led Zeppelin fan and eyes light up like arcing neon. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:50 pm 
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Paul Andrews wrote:
Mick Winsford wrote:
Some recordings gained legendary status and are sometimes seen as better than some official live albums.


Indeed. One mention of "Blueberry Hill" to a Led Zeppelin fan and eyes light up like arcing neon. :lol:


Yes and curiously enough I was thinking of Listen to this Eddie as I typed that bit, from their much maligned and troubled final tour of the States.

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 Post subject: Re: Blip! - last few copies
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Mick Winsford wrote:
Paul Andrews wrote:
Mick Winsford wrote:
Some recordings gained legendary status and are sometimes seen as better than some official live albums.


Indeed. One mention of "Blueberry Hill" to a Led Zeppelin fan and eyes light up like arcing neon. :lol:


Yes and curiously enough I was thinking of Listen to this Eddie as I typed that bit, from their much maligned and troubled final tour of the States.


Yes indeed 8)

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